Protection Orders (Part 3)

Oct 5, 2021

How do you file for custody with a protection order? What happens to my immigration status when a protection order is filed against me? What happens when I violate a protection order? How is a protection order violated? We discuss all this and more!


Susan Reff: On today’s podcast, we’re going to be talking about protection orders, and this is going to be the third and final episode in our three part series about protection orders. And today, Erin Wetzel is here with us again to keep talking more about protection orders.

Erin Wetzel: Hello again.

Susan Reff: So in our previous episodes, we talked about how to get a protection order, what to do if a protection orders taken out against you. And then we talked about what happens when you have a court hearing for a protection order

Erin Wetzel: And the different kinds, the three different kinds in Nebraska.

Susan Reff: So today we’re going to kind of talk about like what happens after what are some of the after things that happen with a protection order? But first, I wanted to share that a fun thing that we’re going to be doing as a law firm tomorrow is we’re going to the barristers ball together. Yes. So we all get to get dressed up and go mingle and have dinner. And there’s a silent, well, I don’t think there’s a silent auction this year. There’s a raffle and then there’s there’s dancing, there’s

Erin Wetzel: A live auction. Oh, for trips.

Susan Reff: Oh yeah, yeah,

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, yeah. Like Mexico and Hawaii and some other places.

Susan Reff: So our whole firm is or all the lawyers are going right and there’s a couple of people on our team who have not gone before. So that’ll be fun for them to see what this is all about. And it’s always fun, I think, to see what people wear when they get dressed up.

Erin Wetzel: It’s law, prom for lawyers,

Susan Reff: Law, prom for lawyers.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, well, no chaperones,

Susan Reff: No no chaperones. They did tell us that we have to wear masks, though for the non eating portions, that just was an announcement. So that’s I’ll

Erin Wetzel: Just eat the whole time. Got it.

Susan Reff: They said eating or drinking?

Erin Wetzel: Ok, so I’ll drink the whole time.

Susan Reff: Yeah, then you better get a ride home,

Announcer: Uber,

Susan Reff: Uber home. Yeah, that’s a good idea. So this caused me to go through my closet and try to see if I actually had anything I could wear.

Erin Wetzel: And you didn’t because of COVID the fifteen, the fifteen pound covered weight gain like the freshman 15.

Susan Reff: I don’t think I’ve gained 15 pounds, but I can honestly say that I haven’t really had a lot of events to go to where I needed something dressy. So the dresses I did have are from like three plus years ago.

Erin Wetzel: You haven’t been to an an event in three plus years,

Susan Reff: Not like a cocktail event. I don’t think I just I don’t know. Maybe I don’t go to dressy events enough.

Erin Wetzel: I have a dress from a couple of weddings I’ve been to in the last few months, so I’m going to wear that.

Susan Reff: Yeah, I

Susan Reff: Haven’t even been been to a wedding. I don’t think I’m too old. I’m like in this in-between age where I don’t get invited to weddings anymore because

Erin Wetzel: Just graduation parties,

Susan Reff: My friends, kids, graduations,

Erin Wetzel: Parties, you got to wait like 10 years and then you’ll start getting invited to weddings again from your friends as

Susan Reff: Kids. Yes. Yeah, that’ll start happening. But anyway, I did find a dress in my closet that still had the tags on it.

Erin Wetzel: So I have so many outfits in my closet that still have tags on. It’s terrible. So, oh look, another thing I’ve never worn, do you?

Susan Reff: Why do you think you don’t wear them?

Erin Wetzel: I don’t know. I’m kind of the person that I stick with, like the same five to 10 outfits that I really like. And then I have too many clothes. So I forget about things and then I’ll be like cleaning my closet. I’m like, I forgot I ever bought that.

Susan Reff: So next week, every day wear something that has a tag on it. Let’s see. I’m challenging you.

Erin Wetzel: Ok, we’ll see.

Susan Reff: Otherwise, it’s wasted, right? Like then it doesn’t get

Erin Wetzel: Used to sell it or something,

Susan Reff: You know, donate it. So. So do you have something to wear?

Erin Wetzel: I do that dress that I wore to those weddings.

Susan Reff: Oh, we’ll see. Yeah, that see. That’s why I don’t have a dress because I’m not getting invited to weddings, so we’ll see.

Erin Wetzel: I find stuff that I like. So this dress I own in like five colors and five different sizes.

Susan Reff: So, oh, that’s a good idea.

Erin Wetzel: If you gain or lose weight, you’re covered.

Susan Reff: My dress is stretchy,

Susan Reff: So

Susan Reff: It doesn’t really matter. And it’s black.

Erin Wetzel: Layers out,

Susan Reff: Oh, I can’t wait to see it. So that’s going to be this Saturday, and we’ll probably post some pictures, so we’ll have to get pictures before the incessant drinking because people don’t want to wear masks happens, but that’ll be really fun. And it’s a cool fundraiser for the Bar Association’s Lawyers Foundation, which does a lot of like pro bono work and good things for people all across the state.

Erin Wetzel: Right? Funds the volunteer lawyers project. They think, Yep.

Susan Reff: So let’s kind of talk a little bit about some random stuff about protection orders that people might not think about when they think about a protection order. I think the first thing we were going to talk about was how protection orders interplay with other types of cases. So especially divorce and custody, it’s a big thing, right?

Erin Wetzel: Right. I mean, especially the domestic violence protection orders because of the fact that there has to be some type of relationship or former relationship there to qualify for that type of protection order. It a lot of times gets used between people who share children. So then you’re having to figure out how do these people still communicate about their kids because it’s obviously not practical for somebody to say, I’m not going to talk to you for a year when we share children together. Some people make it work through communicating through family members, but not everybody has that option.

Susan Reff: Yeah, I had a case where it started as a protection order and then the next after the protection or was the divorce and the protection order got granted. But the judge carved out an exception and said that the parties could talk if it was related to the children, and our client was the person who got the protection order against her husband. Well, any time he wanted to harass her, bother her, you know, just constantly, he was constantly in contact with her. He would just say something about the kids, so he would say whatever mean and degrading thing he wanted to say to her or bothering her. And then he would mention the kids. So we tried taking that to the judge, and the judge was like, Well, I did say that they could talk about the kids. So, I mean, he was clearly knew how to push the limits of that protection order.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, that’s the unfortunate thing when you have children that you share with the person that you need to talk about, because then you know, some people think, Well, does that make the protection order kind of pointless? Because then if it’s a person like that who’s going to abuse that and still use it to harass the person they can write. Other times, though, it makes people kind of get in line and clear up the communication a little bit.

Susan Reff: And sometimes in cases that involve a protection or in some custody issues, once we get further down the road, sometimes the protection order isn’t really needed anymore because people start doing what they’re supposed to do.

Erin Wetzel: Right, right. And you can include some language in those custody orders that kind of directs the communication and what it’s supposed to look like and the contact between the parties to kind of prevent some of those issues. But that being said, that’s where the conduct that led to the protection order is probably not physical assault. And the person really is somebody that kind of gets in line after the fact, right?

Susan Reff: So something that we didn’t talk about before is or no, we did talk about it is that a protection order can give one person temporary custody. But then what? Right? So then in our custody cases, we have to deal with what happens after that temporary custody expires?

Erin Wetzel: Right. Because it only lasts up to 90 days. So the petition specifically says, are you requesting temporary custody for how many days no longer than 90 days? And it’s supposed to give a person enough time to then go file a custody action, whether that’s a request for custody, if there’s no custody, order a request to modify custody or file for divorce in that situation. And it’s not meant to be something that lasts for the entire time that the protection order lasts.

Susan Reff: Right? And I I think it rarely gets granted. But the times when it does get granted, it seems to be cases where the children are also being physically threatened or their safety is at concern and the same as that parent who’s asking for the protection order, right?

Erin Wetzel: Or it gets granted in the ex parte order. And then when the respondent requests a hearing on that, then that part gets taken out at the hearing. Yes, and the judge basically tells them, you know, there’s not. Enough to say that the children need protection from this person, so I’m taking them off of this. I’m not granting you custody. You need to file something or if it’s a case where you know a custody action has already been filed, right?

Susan Reff: So sometimes what we see, as you know, divorce lawyers and lawyers who handle protection orders is and this seems to happen a lot with people who maybe aren’t married and potentially are not living together even, but they have kids together or a child together. Is the relationship has soured and one of the other then is kind of thinking in their mind like, Well, we need a custody order. But they first file for a protection order, thinking that if they can say all the bad things and paint this person as a terrible person, then they will be able to prevail in their custody case. And so I really feel like that’s where protection orders can be abused.

Erin Wetzel: Yes, definitely. And I think it’s rare, but sometimes you have people who go a little bit further with that abuse of protection orders. And there’s, you know, they make up all of the allegations. They know that the protection order can affect that person in some other area of their life, whether work, you know, right? Other opportunities, criminal cases, immigration consequences, stuff like that. So it’s it’s rare that people do that, but that does happen where people know that system and they abuse it.

Susan Reff: Right? Yeah. And we talked a little bit about, you know, you can it can affect your ability to get a certain job if they’re doing a background check, right? Own a firearm. Potentially all of those things can be affected, even if it’s there’s not even an allegation of physical abuse. Exactly. I mean, the judge could could put the protection order in place against that person. Let’s talk about those other consequences. You mentioned immigration.

Erin Wetzel: Yes. Now there’s this caveat that I’m not an immigration attorney. We do have an immigration attorney at our law firm. So if you have any questions about this, you should certainly reach out to her. Deanna, she does a great job, but my understanding is that if somebody is not a U.S. citizen and they get a protection order against them, specifically a sexual assault or domestic abuse protection order that can affect their immigration status in a negative way. Right. So if you’re a person that doesn’t, that has some immigration issues that you’re looking at and somebody tries to file a protection order against you, you do need to consult with an immigration attorney. Right. So that’s another area where our law firm is great because we have an immigration attorney here who can advise those people on those issues. And then we have other attorneys that can handle the protection order aspect.

Susan Reff: I had a case with a client who was here on and I am also not an immigration attorney, but I know a little bit from talking with Deanna to help me on some of my cases, but he was here on a work visa. Everything was fine. You know, him and his wife had split up. They were going through their divorce. Everything was OK. You know, no issues. And she started accusing him of contacting her and she was like, they don’t have kids together. And she was like, I don’t want him to contact me. And I talked to him and he’s like, I’m not contacting her. And. We go down the road a little ways, and she tells her lawyer that she’s going to file for a protection order and her lawyer actually said, Do you know that that would affect his immigration status in the United States? And she said, no, but she’s like, I don’t want him to contact me. And so the lawyer, you know, between the lawyers, we’re talking about this and trying to figure out what really is going on here. But the bottom line was, I told my client, if you are contacting her, she wants you to stop and she’s threatening, threatening a protection order. And he knew immediately that that would affect his immigration status, even on a work visa. So he was he was concerned. And, you know, after we had those conversations, that was the last I heard of it. But it’s one of those things that, you know, you’re working on a case and anything can happen. And then you have to figure out, OK, well, what now, you know, how do I figure out this immigration portion of the case when I thought we were just doing a divorce?

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, I had one of those cases that goes in line with both the abuse of protection orders by the petitioner and the potential immigration consequences. I believe I mentioned this in a past episode of the case where we had the family law case, the protection order, the criminal case and these criminal charges were brought on these false allegations. And because we had done the protection order, we knew that she had not brought up these allegations in the protection order hearing, even though this incident was supposed to have occurred before the protection order hearing. So we were able to get that transcript, prove it to the county attorney that she was lying about it and they dismissed the criminal cases. Well, in that case, our client was also here on a work visa, and she tried multiple times to get a protection order against him, knowing that that would affect his ability to stay in the country. And so those were two cases where luckily we were able to to get those dismissed against him so that it didn’t affect that. But that was a case where she was certainly abusing the system and trying whatever she could to try to get him out of the way because she didn’t want him around the kid.

Susan Reff: Yeah, it’s like a backdoor way to get custody, right? You know, because the judge could say, I’m giving you two joint custody, but then if one person no longer can live in the United States, that other person like de facto has full custody?

Erin Wetzel: Exactly.

Susan Reff: So that’s something. Yeah, that’s definitely an avenue for abuse of a protection order, right? So once the protection order is granted and it’s in place, there’s consequences if someone violates

Erin Wetzel: It, right? Exactly. So protection orders lasts for a full year, like we mentioned previously. And if it’s an ex parte order and you have a hearing and at the hearing the judge upheld upholds that it goes back to the date when the ex parte order was granted for so a full year from that date. If the judge doesn’t grant it ex parte but sets it for a show cause hearing and decides to grant it at that hearing, then it’s a full year from the date of the hearing. And during that period of time, if you don’t follow the order and you know, it will very specifically list out the things that you can’t do if you violate one of those things and the person reports it to the police, the police can file criminal charges against you for violating a protection order.

Susan Reff: And I feel like this is another area that is a little gray because we often have clients who have a valid protection order against their ex, spouse or ex person they were in a relationship with, and they will call the police when they’ve been contacted and the police sometimes don’t do anything right.

Erin Wetzel: You know, I think in the last episode with Tracy, we were talking about that case where I was playing the voicemails at the hearing. That was the case where the first time the voicemail was made, it was a violation of the protection order. She acknowledged that she had received it, but the way she spoke in the voicemail was insinuating she wasn’t going to be contacting them anymore. So the police originally didn’t file for that violation. But then when she made the further calls, then they went back and filed all the violations. Well, because the voicemails were left for the one party, who was then later dismissed off the protection order. The prosecutor declined to file the charges down the road. But there are. There are lots of cases where the the criminal charges move forward and and people get convicted of it.

Susan Reff: But there’s no exception, right? That says, don’t contact this person, except you can contact them to acknowledge that you got the protection or like, that’s not a thing. And and there’s no exception unless the judge put it in there. There’s no exception if you’re calling about the kids or you’re approaching the person about the kids. And I. Feel like that’s where the police are less likely to do anything if they’re like, oh, well, this touches on your custody issues, so I’m not, you know, the cops are always like, really hands off when they feel like something is. Should be dealt with through a divorce case or a custody case, and they’ll say that’s a civil matter. Well, if people feel scared of the other person, whether they have a protection or not, that crosses over from civil to law enforcement issue, I think, right.

Erin Wetzel: So the thing to keep in mind is you should report everything might not always be acted on. Unfortunately, if you’re the person who the protection order is against, don’t assume that whatever you’re doing isn’t going to lead to a criminal charge because it could. So just do what you have to do to follow the order. Don’t think that you’re going to fall into this little loophole that the police are not going to care about, right?

Susan Reff: And if you have a protection order against you and you want it lifted, you can talk to an attorney and see if you can get it modified or lifted after the fact. But until until there’s a judge’s order that says that this protection order is dismissed or the judge will allow contact for certain exceptions. You know, it’s like it’s black and white. You can’t do the things that it says that you shouldn’t do. Right? And one of the misconceptions that we talk about a lot is the protection order isn’t going to say, like Erin, you cannot come within 50 feet of Susan. It doesn’t say that, right?

Erin Wetzel: I think in in the terms of what people think of when they think of protection orders, you know, they think of these movies where the movies always say that, well, you’re supposed to be 100 hundred feet away and then the person saying, Oh, well, that person is abusing this because they’re one hundred and two feet away, so they’re not technically violating that. Well, that’s not how they work in Nebraska. They don’t say you have to stay a certain number of feet away from somebody. But sometimes it tells you that you can’t go to certain locations and certain addresses, such as the person’s house, the person’s work where the kids go to school, right?

Susan Reff: Yeah. Our protection orders are a form with choices that the judge can say I these are the things that I am going to order. I’m going to order that you cannot go to this location. I’m going to order that. You cannot contact this person. It doesn’t say, you know, and this person must stay a certain number of feet away from the other person, right?

Erin Wetzel: So sometimes if they don’t have a specific location where that person is not supposed to go to, then there’s really nothing saying that the person can’t be at a similar location. So if these people end up at the same restaurant, right, unless you can prove that the person that has a protection order against him is purposely doing that to harass the person, that’s not a violation of it. Right. So I mean, it’s probably best practice to leave a place if the person who has the protection order shows up just so that you’re not walking in that gray area. But if you’re not going to bother that person or speak to them or harass them, bug them in any way, this technically not a violation,

Susan Reff: Right, and an a violation of a protection order is a criminal charge, and it’s very serious. Yes, and a domestic violence protection order and a sexual assault protection order. The violation is is a class one misdemeanor, right?

Erin Wetzel: Right. And that penalty is up to a year in jail.

Susan Reff: And if you violate it more than once, it becomes a felony. Right? Right.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah. If you have one conviction for violating a protection order and I believe any protection order, a further one gets enhanced to a felony.

Susan Reff: And I think it’s fair to say that a lot of people, the protections for some people, the protection order doesn’t really change their behavior. If they want to talk to that person or they feel like they are entitled to go have a conversation with that person, they’re going to do it because a lot of times there’s mental health issues or substance abuse at play and a judge’s court order saying don’t do something really does not affect that person.

Erin Wetzel: Right. But I I do want people to keep in mind that I think those people that don’t take that seriously are the small minority. So if you feel that you need a protection order to protect you, get it. Don’t feel like you’re going to be that person that the that the respondent is not going to follow it. You should always take that step to protect yourself, even if you think there’s a chance that it’s not going to help anything because at least then you’re documenting what’s going on.

Susan Reff: I can honestly say in my experience of representing people who have been charged with violating a protection order that none of them are a one and done. They are all people who like, serially continue to violate the protection order, right? Because there’s usually a mental health issue. They feel the protection order was granted, maybe unfairly or they, you know, they just they’re a person. It’s like I’m just not going to follow that, and so they’re like multiple instances of of contact right now generally. It’s been charged as one charge in your case, though you said there was multiple charges because of there’s multiple contact.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, I’ve had some cases where they will file a charge for each separate contact. So if the person contacts on July 2nd, July 15th, August 1st, there can be three different charges. But if there’s a series of contacts within a short period of time, that’s probably going to be only one charge, right? But if it’s the multiple charges that the one time they’re all going to be filed as the Class one misdemeanor, it has to be a prior conviction. So one of the cases that I had, somebody had multiple charges for these different text messages that were going on. And he said to me, Well, she told me she asked for the protection order to be dismissed. I didn’t know it was still in effect, so I looked up the protection order. And sure enough, she had filed a request with the court to dismiss the protection order during a time period when they were getting along. But the judge denied it. So he started contacting her, and these contacts were pretty abusive language. And so she reported him and they charged him with the violation of the protection order. Well, unfortunately, it wasn’t a defense that he thought it was dismissed because he never had confirmation from the court. So if somebody tells you that they’re asking that it be dismissed, you need to verify that it’s actually dismissed with a court order because it doesn’t matter what you believe. What matters is whether or not the protection order is valid.

Susan Reff: And I think that case definitely underscores how serious some of these cases can be. Where she wanted the protection order dismissed, right? She took the steps, went to the courthouse, filled out the paperwork and the judge didn’t dismiss it, even though she wanted it dismissed. Right?

Erin Wetzel: Right. And so the judge must have looked at the allegations made in the original protection order and decided that this was, you know, important enough or serious enough allegations that despite this person wanting to dismiss that, they weren’t going to.

Susan Reff: Another thing I wanted to mention about violations to kind of to follow up on that story is you can violate the protection order by saying, you know, reaching out and telling the person like, Hey, how are you? I love you instead of like a situation where they’re, you know, calling them and saying, you know, mean things or, you know, harassing, rude things. It can just be any contact, right? Even if it’s positive contact.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, the orders don’t specify. It just says contact, right?

Susan Reff: So if there’s a if you have a protection order against you and you want to tell that person how much you love them, it’s still going to be a violation, right? Do it. Don’t reach. And what about sending gifts? I’ve had that to like people will send flowers. They’ll or they’ll have their friend go over and bring them something

Erin Wetzel: That is contact. Yeah. If you were trying to get some type of message, whether a verbal message or I guess that’s more of a of a show of affection, even if you’re making that contact through another person that counts as contact that violates the protection order. So you can’t say, hey, so and so please go tell her that I really love her and I just want her to dismiss this. That’s contact. You’re trying to pass a message through another person.

Susan Reff: So I think to wrap up, I want you to tell the story of the time you want a protection order violation case.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah. So I had I had a case where these two people used to be in a relationship. They had a child together, but there was a child on the protection order that was not my client’s child. But he viewed this child as as a as a stepchild, and he received a Facebook friend request from the child. And so he responded to that by sending a Facebook message, saying, Remember what I told you? We can’t have contact right now, but I love you.

Susan Reff: So was there already a protection order between the adults? There was that

Erin Wetzel: Point. There was a protection order between the adults with the child included. Ok. And he knew that he did not contest it at the hearing, even though we really thought he could have won that hearing and gotten it dismissed. He was a client at the time and we advised him to do that, but he just didn’t really want to deal with that. So he didn’t contested. It, stayed in place. The child was on it. So he responded to their friend request by saying, You know, I can’t have contact with you, mom then reports this he gets charged with violation, the protection order. So we took it to trial and I have this older judge. And so I’m really having to explain to him and even the prosecutor how Facebook works and I had downloaded had to

Susan Reff: Explain all of Facebook.

Erin Wetzel: I did, so I was

Erin Wetzel: Explaining to him how the messages work, what it looks like when you get a message request from somebody that you’re not friends with. Oh my gosh. I downloaded these reports from his Facebook account that didn’t show the friend request being sent because after the message was sent, his account was then blocked from this child’s Facebook account. And when the the child had to come testify and when she testified, she stated that she never saw the message and that she did not block his account. And the mom admitted to being the one that found the message. So our argument was that the mom had sent the Facebook request to try to get him to violate the protection order.

Susan Reff: Wow.

Erin Wetzel: And that the reason that the friend request didn’t show up was because she then blocked the account afterwards, so that didn’t show up. So we argued that that wasn’t a violation because it was in response to the protection order, and the judge agreed and my client was found not guilty.

Susan Reff: Do you think that part of it was this platform that the judge just didn’t really understand how it worked to? Did you? I mean, it sounds like you used that to your advantage. I did,

Erin Wetzel: Because even the prosecutor didn’t really know he’s I think I don’t think he’s a person that really uses social media. And so I don’t think he really was able to lay out the way the system worked and what constituted a contact. So even though there’s not technically a thing and protection orders that say if this person reaches out to, you can respond because I always tell people that the person who has the protection order is not the one who’s held to that standard. So even if they contact, you do not respond. But the judge basically didn’t find that he had the intent of making that contact and was essentially telling that person, I can’t contact you, right?

Susan Reff: Huh? So I’m just sitting here in my mind, seeing the judge scratching his head, going Facebook block friend request. What is all of this mean?

Susan Reff: Polk Yeah, yeah.

Susan Reff: What was there? Was there poking

Erin Wetzel: There? Not in this case. Is that even a thing on Facebook? I think it is, but it should not be. It’s creepy.

Susan Reff: Yeah, that

Susan Reff: I think because wasn’t there like a finger?

Erin Wetzel: Yes, there was a finger. And I would say, so-and-so’s poked you.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, I’m like,

Erin Wetzel: Oh, they need to get rid of that. That’s weird. Inappropriate. Yeah.

Susan Reff: Yeah, that was like one of the first Facebook things I think you could do was poke somebody.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, before there was even technically like a wall to write on.

Susan Reff: Wow. Ok, Facebook history way back going in the way back in

Erin Wetzel: 2004 to 2005.

Susan Reff: Yeah, it was that one Facebook was started. Do you

Erin Wetzel: Think so? It started out as only college kids could have it and they had to add your school. And so I remember the spring of my freshman year, people in my dorm were starting to talk about, Hey, Facebook is available for Creighton now. And so I think that was maybe a year after it was started. And so I got I got on Facebook. I’ve been on there since 2005. That’s going to date me.

Susan Reff: But when I was a regular adult, when Facebook came out doing like real adult things, I was a lawyer. So funny, funny fact about me is when I first started practicing law, email was just a thing, right? And the judges were like, How do we respond if they contact the person over email? Like, is that a violation? Because it was either like face to face or like picking up the phone and calling them before that? So then email became a thing. So then I think the terminology of like electronic communication was put into the statute. I think they actually had to change it and

Erin Wetzel: Add that is that like the argument about what constitutes speech within the First Amendment? That’s another podcast for another day.

Susan Reff: Yeah, we’ll bring Erin back and we’ll talk about First Amendment freedom of speech. That would be fun. Sure. That would be really fun.

Announcer: It’s now time for your random moment of nonsense on the Lady Lawyer League podcast.

Susan Reff: We’re going to take a break from recording in. Matt’s going to make outtakes.

Announcer: Yeah. So gosh, there’s bloopers.

Susan Reff: So I listen to a couple of

Erin Wetzel: Them takes podcast episode and bloopers.

Susan Reff: You actually talk on a few of them like we hear like your voice in the background, like I’m going to leave that

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Erin Wetzel: I love IMDb plan all along.

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Erin Wetzel: Jeff Bezos owns IMDb. Whatever, I still love the website. That’s where all my pop culture information comes from.

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Erin Wetzel: Yeah. You immediately go to IMDb and you find it of

Announcer: Leonardo DiCaprio, where he’s like, Oh, that guy was in that. I’ve seen him in that thing. And then you immediately go to IMDb. Yes, that’s the thing to say.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, that’s what I did, yes. These are our pop

Susan Reff: Culture

Erin Wetzel: To pimp out that thing you do. They didn’t know about that thing you do. And I inform them, they her Indiana.

Susan Reff: You didn’t know about that movie because I started singing.

Erin Wetzel: I started singing the song in the nineties, right?

Announcer: 90. Yeah, you have to remember I’m an immigrant child, so my pop culture references are very different than what you’re

Erin Wetzel: I don’t know. I feel like your pop culture references should be better than I have a friend who came from somewhere in Asia. And she said she entirely learned English by sitting at home and watching movies all day.

Announcer: How do you know English? You’re a British colony? Ok, fine. I’m saying my parents did not participate in American.

Erin Wetzel: I don’t think it’s that. I think they’re too young.

Announcer: I think it’s more like five and ninety seven. So did you hear

Erin Wetzel: What did you see the birthday card that I gave to Diane? Yes. On the front, it says, fuck you. And then it says her being like better looking, smarter,

Announcer: Younger, young and hot. Yeah, something like that.

Erin Wetzel: Like being a goddess. And then it’s like, Happy birthday!

Announcer: And she put glitter stickers all over it. Yes. Fuck you with glitter stickers.

Erin Wetzel: And then I snuck it onto her keyboard

Announcer: When she wasn’t. I snuck it on our

Erin Wetzel: Keyboard when she wasn’t in her office, and then she came back and I see her walking to her office and then I hear,

Announcer: Ooh, like, she sees it, that she opens it. It’s just like immediately starts laughing and then she’s like, runs over to my office. And I was like, I was listening to this whole thing. You’re like, I was waiting for the reaction.

Erin Wetzel: I found it at the store called. I think it’s called RSVP in Rock Rock Book.

Susan Reff: It’s a woman owned by a divorced woman owned business. Oh, they have

Erin Wetzel: How I know they have a section in there called the naughty section.

Susan Reff: They have divorce cards there, too.

Erin Wetzel: Yes, that’s where I found the card and the naughty section. And I was like, Is Diana’s birthday coming up? And I looked at the calendar, I’m like, It’s in two weeks, OK, all right.

Announcer: So oh, I never I thought you meant like they were just like, Happy birthday, like a child, like making a like, Hey, I

Erin Wetzel: Made, I made cards in college.

Announcer: Yeah. Oh, I didn’t do that.

Erin Wetzel: I got like a whole box of like blank cards in different colors with envelopes, and then I would make like put like stickers all over it. And then I even got a bag of buttons and I would like do the glue dots with the buttons to decorate.

Announcer: I mean, one of my favorite birthday cards I ever got was a homemade card that my friend made was like a pop up book. Like, she folded and it popped up and it was like Beyonce. And then I had a Beyonce magnet in it that I have kept. I got that one for like my twenty third birthday or twenty not twenty sixth birthday.

Erin Wetzel: I’m not that

Announcer: Skilled. It was. I know I was like, I’m a this is a lot. It was. It was beautiful. I had kept it. I put it at my safe because I’m very sentimental. So I keep a lot of weird things in your

Erin Wetzel: Safe,

Announcer: In my fireproof safe. Yes.

Erin Wetzel: Yes, I have a whole no. I mean, I keep my estate documents in my fireplace.

Announcer: I have my space in there. But I also have just a little folder of just like I

Erin Wetzel: Have my passport, my Social Security card, my estate documents, and then I have a separate non fireproof box for cards.

Announcer: Oh, I have a file folder called Important Documents. See my friend from about the age. Take your old safe and I have nothing but my dad made me maybe be a little and he’s like, You need somewhere important to put the documents. And I was like, OK,

Erin Wetzel: I have the little in college. My dad bought me one of those little boxes.

Announcer: The lock box box is yes,

Erin Wetzel: And now we have a huge gun safe. We’re never moving just so we never have to move that stupid gun safe ever again.

Susan Reff: You can just leave it and have it be part of

Announcer: The house and then get a new one and have it dropped off. Probably. And you could be like

Susan Reff: Sale price plus gun safe. Yeah, extra twenty eight thousand.

Erin Wetzel: Yeah, cos it’s in. It’s in this little room that has like it’s own. So you walk into a room and it looks like like a little like storage type room. And Cody, like, made it into like is like a little tool room, like work room. And then there’s another door and it’s like a steel door. And so we call it our panic room.

Announcer: That’s a movie, too. Yeah. Have you seen that movie

Susan Reff: That’s in the lake where

Erin Wetzel: Kristen Stewart the mouth

Announcer: Breather? Jodie, what’s her Jodie Foster? Yeah, do

Erin Wetzel: You know Jodie Foster graduated from Yale? Did you know that also?

Announcer: Ok, we got to do a podcast. She had us. She had a stalker

Erin Wetzel: Who attempted to assassinate Ronald Reagan because he was thought he was doing it to impress her.

Announcer: That’s insanity, but OK, that’s the podcast. Yeah, OK. And now on the podcast, are there any email contacts that you’re support because there’s no reason we shouldn’t be up there? Just for myself, that’s check yeah, I have to cheer.

Susan Reff: Quit being such a pitcher

Announcer: Doesn’t show up. Yeah, yeah, we both went through everything. That’s fine. So I don’t send email afterwards.

Erin Wetzel: Get it together, Stitcher.

Announcer: Getting warm in here. Ok. So are we doing? Yeah, two, for sure. We don’t really have a third topic, I have a third one there. Oh, OK. Nonsense. Yeah, that was total nonsense post-show nonsense. Every episode where we just record

Susan Reff: Some talking

Announcer: Points. Now it’s time for those show notes. Yeah.

Erin Wetzel: Erin’s random pop culture facts.

Announcer: Jodie Foster stuff. Yeah, he didn’t know that.

Susan Reff: I did know about that because that was part of why she decided not to do a whole bunch more movies.

Announcer: Well, that was

Erin Wetzel: A long time ago. That was in the eighties. She was a child star. Yeah, she was a child prostitute and taxi taxi.

Susan Reff: That’s a great movie. That’s even

Announcer: Kind of taxi

Erin Wetzel: Driver.

Susan Reff: Taxi Driver Taxi was the show.

Erin Wetzel: Really, isn’t Robert De Niro in that movie, too? Mm hmm. Yeah, that’s going to bug me now. What’s the guy’s

Announcer: Name? Is your phone and Google and Google it?

Erin Wetzel: Ronald Reagan shooter? I’m going to know this the second I see him.

Announcer: Oh, John, you guys just three names Gacy. No. Who did that? The serial killer who dressed like a clown who killed a bunch of little boys? Yeah, I was like John Wayne. But John Wayne Gacy? It’s not him. Yes, it’s John Wayne Gacy. Yeah, that’s not that far off from the stalker of Jodie Foster. John Hinckley Jr. See three names Motive attempt to gain the favor

Erin Wetzel: Of Jodie Foster.

Announcer: And he

Erin Wetzel: Actually killed James Brady, who the Brady Act is named after,

Susan Reff: Whose secretary of state

Erin Wetzel: Eventually killed him. He eventually died of that, but like 20 years later, right? I think he died eventually. Yeah, he died in 2014, but it was directly attributed to which fun fact they could probably go back and prosecute him for murder now.

Announcer: Even though anyway. Twenty four years later, I love this, but

Susan Reff: I have a console at 11,

Announcer: Ok? Yes, I have one at ten. Forty five, so OK. Ok. Ok, ready. Ok. Cheerleaders, it’s very much bring it on.

Susan Reff: Ok, well, thanks for listening today. We hope that there was some good information about podcasts or about protection orders on our podcast. And like the three part series, I think, was good because we talked a little bit about the nuts and bolts in the first one. Then about the mechanics, about how hearings work and then some, you know, interesting things that people maybe don’t think about in this last one.

Erin Wetzel: And thanks to the fact.

Susan Reff: Yeah. And thank you, Erin, for, you know, coming in here and lending your expertise, especially about the crossover between protection orders and criminal cases because they definitely go hand in hand.

Erin Wetzel: Any time I’m around, I think you know where to find me down the hall. Thanks, Erin.

Announcer: Thank you for listening to the lady. Be sure to like and subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts, if you would like to learn more about our firm, Hightower-Reff Law, please visit our website at H r Law We’ll see you next week.

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