Meeting Sarah Hart and Season 2 Finale

Jun 21, 2022

It’s the finale of season two! In this episode, Susan and Tracy celebrate over 60 episodes of the Lady Lawyer League podcast as they bring on new associate attorney Sarah Hart. Together, they discuss some of their favorite episodes and topics they’ve covered up to this point, and they dive into topics they hope to cover in season three.


Tracy Hightower-Henne: Hello, Lady Lawyer League. It’s hard to believe it’s been an entire year since we started recording the Lady Lawyer League podcast, with a few bonuses in the mix. We’ve recorded over 60 episodes, from the basics of the divorce process to abortion and the law. We’ve covered a diverse range of topics, and believe it or not, we have a lot more to talk about. We are excited to announce Season 3 is happening this fall, and we’ll have more details this summer. On today‘s podcast, we’re going to have you meet our newest lawyer, Sara Hart.

Intro: Welcome to the Lady Lawyer League podcast. They are a league of lady lawyers in an all-female law firm in Omaha, Nebraska, called Hightower Reff Law. On this podcast, you’ll hear stories of what it’s like to be a lady lawyer and an entrepreneur. Now it’s time to talk about the law, share real-life stories about representing clients and discuss the current events of the week. It’s the Lady Lawyer League podcast with Susan Reff and Tracy Hightower-Henne.

Tracy: Welcome to the Lady Lawyer League podcast. I’m Tracy Hightower-Henne.

Susan: I’m Susan Ruff and we have Sarah Hart with us today. 

Sarah: Hello. 

Susan: Hi, Sarah. 

Sarah: Hi. I’m super excited to be here. 

Susan: Sarah is our newest associate attorney and she’s been with us for almost a month. 

Sarah: Almost a month. 

Susan: Almost a month. 

Tracy: Three and a half weeks. 

Susan: We saw you on the podcast really early. Really, I feel like compared to some of the other new folks, but just. 

Sarah: Thrown me in. 

Susan: You seem like a seasoned pro already, though. 

Sarah: Sure. 

Tracy: You’ve listened to a lot of our podcasts, so that’s a good start. 

Sarah: Yes, I have. Absolutely. 

Susan: So, Sarah, let’s talk first about your name. 

Tracy: Whoa, where are we going? 

Susan: Well, whenever anyone has a name that, like, means something like heart. 

Sarah: Yes. 

Susan: Do people’s, like, say things? Do they get cutesy? 

Sarah: They do a lot. A lot of people use a heart as my last name, even though it’s spelled differently. 

Susan: Oh, the word. Yeah. 

Tracy: Or like an emoji. 

Sarah: Yes, like an emoji. Like a picture of a heart. 

Susan: Sarah Picture Heart. Yes. 

Tracy: No emoji. 

Sarah: Or an emoji. 

Tracy: Or a picture. First you wanted it to be an emoji. 

Sarah: It has like this really like old meaning from the UK. I think it means deer and our family were deer hunters. So we have a crest with deer on it. 

Tracy: Oh, it means deer, d-e-e-r. 

Sarah: Yes. 

Tracy: Oh, not like d-e-a-r. 

Sarah: Right. 

Tracy: And so for the listeners, your last name is spelled H-A-R-T. 

Sarah: Yes, yes. So that’s like the old meaning, but it’s people usually use it. 

Tracy: I just. 

Sarah: Got CRT. 

Tracy: I just got a spam email that said, dear comma, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. You have copyright violations on Facebook. Please click this link to keep your Facebook page up. And I thought they were calling me dear, like honey, dear DEAR. Ah, and it was so spammy that they just aren’t putting anyone’s name. 

Sarah: Right. So you clicked link, right? 

Tracy: I did not click the link. 

Susan: Did you give them your credit card number? 

Tracy: I did do that. 

Sarah: And your social. 

Tracy: Yeah, I just I didn’t even click the link, I just responded to the email and just I said, I’m assuming you’re going to need all of this. And I already sent you a check for $500,000. 

Sarah: Perfect. 

Susan: Yeah, there. So, but people fall for it. 

Tracy: But I am like, and I immediately sent it to Kari, our marketing specialist, like, “Damnit Kari, did we copyright something curious?” Like, no. 

Susan: Only lawyers believe they actually did the thing wrong. 

Sarah: Yeah, exactly. 

Tracy: Lawyers. I mean, because your heart drops for a second. You thinking, “Did I copyright something I don’t want to copyright?” 

Sarah: Right. 

Susan: So because some people are like everything’s spam, everything’s junk, nothing’s real. Yeah, that’s how my husband approaches things. It’s like, that’s not real. And I’m like, but it might be. 

Tracy: Well, they say that now they’re calling people saying, you won the whatever house. What’s the house? Publisher’s Clearinghouse. Yeah. 

Susan: Publishers Clearing, where they show up with a big check and balloons. 

Tracy: Yeah, but no but the spammers are calling and saying, “But we need you to send in some cash for taxes and fees before we send you the money.” Oh, we’re doing it, like and I think they’re mailing cash. 

Sarah: Just like an envelope of cash. 

Tracy: Yeah, well, I wonder where they’re mailing it. Like to India like that. 

Sarah: Yeah. What’s the address that I’m mailing cash to? 

Tracy: Listen, you can all start mailing it to my house, which is … 

Susan: Do they still have Publisher’s Clearinghouse? Like, yeah, we would get those things in the mail and they would have those stamps and you would lick them and then you were supposed to send it back and I always wanted to do it. My mom was like, “It’s such a scam.” And I’m like, but it’s like, I don’t have to pay to and. 

Tracy: I think it’s real. But those aren’t real, right? Don’t send the taxes and fees and cash. 

Susan: Right? Oh, stamps. 

Tracy: Does anyone lick stamps anymore? 

Susan: I bought stamps last night and they were self-adhesive. 

Tracy: Right. So I don’t think there’s any licking ones anymore. Do we lick anything anymore? 

Susan: What? 

Tracy: Envelopes. 

Sarah: Envelopes? 

Tracy: Not the ones that stamp envelopes now, but they are quite more expensive. So we still lick our envelopes. 

Susan: But we have the thing. 

Tracy: I like mine. 

Susan: We have a choice. 

Tracy: And you have to do it just right so you don’t get a paper cut on your … 

Sarah: Are you afraid of DNA? What if something happens? 

Tracy: No, not at all. 

Susan: We have a might. 

Tracy: Listen, I’ve lost my driver’s license in New York City, in Central Park somewhere. And my, I also lost a passport somewhere in Canada. I’m not worried about me. 

Susan: I wouldn’t worry in Canada either. 

Tracy: It was at the casino, right across the river from Detroit, somewhere over there. 

Susan: Some nice person probably just put it in their shredder. 

Tracy: Oh, I’m sure. Really? 

Susan: In Canada, yes. 

Sarah: They’re so nice. 

Tracy: Yeah. You know what? I would have needed it to get back into Detroit. This was when I was in law school. Anyway, speaking of law school, Sarah, why did you go to law school. 

Susan: Or have you ever lost a passport? 

Tracy: Take your pick. 

Sarah: Have I ever lost a passport? No, I have not yet lost a passport. Why did I go to law school? Does anyone want to go to law school? Is that like a … 

Susan: I don’t think. 

Sarah: So. Does anyone actually want to do that? 

Tracy: I did. I really did. 

Susan: You did? 

Tracy: Yes. That was the reason I went to law school is because I wanted to keep going to school. And that was like. 

Sarah: I. 

Tracy: Do like fun. 

Sarah: Yeah, I do like if someone were to pay me to go to school now, I would go to school. 

Susan: Well, they kind of paid you in law school. 

Sarah: Yeah, in. 

Tracy: A debt that you’re a writer. 

Susan: Here’s the money. And afterwards, you’re going to pay it back in triplicate for 50 years. 

Sarah: Yeah, for the rest of my life. Yeah. No, I didn’t want to go to law school until after undergrad, and I wanted to go because I did want to go back to school. I took a year off and it seemed like something that I enjoyed in undergrad. I took a lot of international law classes and. 

Tracy: I. 

Sarah: Spy. Yeah, exactly. So I thought, let me go to law school so I can be a spy. 

Tracy: And are you really a spy right now? 

Sarah: I am. 

Susan: She’s a spy for our competitor. 

Tracy: She’s our mole. 

Sarah: So I guess I’m a secret spy. But also that’s how I ended up in law school. 

Tracy: So what did you do in your year off? Do you want to share? Because I have like wild dreams of what I would have done if I had a year off in between. 

Sarah: It was not exciting. So I did not a lot. I lived in Virginia, right outside of D.C., so I spent a lot of time going to stuff in D.C., which I love. I think it’s really cool. 

Susan: What was your major in undergrad, international law? 

Sarah: It was international politics and government. So I took a lot of, it was basically political science, but with like an international spin. And I took a lot of like country-specific government classes. 

Tracy: Like which countries? 

Sarah: Russia, China. Helpful, helpful. 

Tracy: Both of them are scary. 

Sarah: But scary. Yeah. Because they were still, they were telling us how dangerous those countries were while looking at their governments. And I kind of did the same thing in law school. I took a lot of comparative international law classes in law school, which are super interesting. 

Tracy: And that really is helpful in divorce law. 

Sarah: Absolutely. 

Tracy: You’re super helpful. And Sarah lost custody and domestic violence. 

Susan: Where did you go to law school? 

Sarah: I went to Creighton. 

Susan: Well, no one’s going to go to your law school, so it’s either going to be Creighton or Lincoln, so. 

Tracy: Oh, my God. 

Susan: Well, I mean, like the chancellor. 

Tracy: There’s a current judge in Nebraska who went to our law school. 

Susan: What county? 

Tracy: Washington. 

Susan: So close. Oh, what’s it? Oh, Barron. Yeah. He went to your law school. Are you sure? Is he sure? 

Tracy: I don’t know. 

Susan: Were you there at the same time? 

Tracy: Because I think. Yeah, I think we overlapped. 

Susan: Did you know him? 

Tracy: No. I was on a tax law track. 

Susan: How many people graduated in your law school class? 

Tracy: I have no idea. A lot. A lot. 

Susan: Like how many is a lot? 

Tracy: Over 250. Really? Hundred? Yeah. We were the largest law school, population-wise, in the country. We had three campuses. So my law school. 

Sarah: Wow. 

Tracy: Thank you very much. And the only reason Susan is interested that Sarah went to Creighton because Susan went to Creighton is that now our numbers in our lawyers are back to the Creighton-heavy side. Yeah, because they were at the University of Nebraska-Lincoln College of Law. So. I know. And then there’s me. 

Sarah: Yeah. Like the tie breaker. 

Tracy: Only one of me. You’re lucky the number’s up. 

Susan: Yeah. No, you’re not the middle. 

Tracy: Curry only create in law. Yeah. Create Lincoln or me? Yeah. Oh, well, then you’re like. 

Susan: The eight ball. 

Tracy: Bitches. Yeah, yeah. 

Susan: See, it’s a positive. 

Tracy: Yes, if you stand in the middle. Yeah. Creighton over here. 

Susan: Yeah. Except for Creighton’s heavier, so. 

Sarah: Right. 

Tracy: The heavier in the what numbers. Oh. Or boobs. 

Sarah: Which is true. Yes, I would say it’s probably true. 

Susan: Bust size. 

Tracy: Yes. We just did group pictures and you look at them and you’re like, God damn, there’s a lot of boobs in this office. 

Susan: And I don’t think we should name any names, you know. 

Tracy: And then there was Amit. 

Susan: Who is not a lawyer yet, so we can’t really put him in the mix. 

Tracy: We’re not we’re not releasing that group photo yet. Comment. You better be studying for the bar right now. Yeah. While you’re listening to this podcast. 

Susan: So you went to Creighton Law School? 

Sarah: Yes. 

Susan: And after you graduated, what did you do? 

Sarah: I worked in Iowa for a little bit, and I did juvenile law and criminal defense. So I represented parents that got their children taken away from them as a simple explanation. 

Tracy: And because none of that is simple work. 

Sarah: Well, because there were so few attorneys doing this, I worked in all the out counties and I was the only female. So I got all the moms appointed to me. 

Tracy: What’s the out counties mean? Like gay out? Like. Like out of the closet? 

Sarah: Probably the opposite. 

Tracy: Yes. 

Sarah: Like the rural counties. 

Tracy: Outside of. 

Sarah: Outside of like Council Bluffs. So that district is District 4, and it’s Paige Montgomery. There’s a Cass County out there. 

Tracy: There’s more cows than people. 

Sarah: Yes, all farmland. And I would drive an hour and a half each way sometimes. Wow. Go to court. 

Susan: Was your office in Council Bluffs based in Council Bluffs? 

Sarah: It was right outside of Council Bluffs. And then I continued to do that when I moved to a firm in Omaha. 

Susan: Okay. So juvenile court and criminal defense, what did you like about doing those areas? 

Sarah: I really liked juvenile law. I was a GAL, too, and I really liked working with kids. That’s a guardian ad litem. 

Tracy: I think it’s Latin too, right? 

Sarah: It is. 

Tracy: I have a client right now that keeps saying gal. And I was like, No, no, it’s not a word. 

Susan: Those are just a lot of the clients say that. 

Sarah: Yeah, yeah. 

Susan: They’re like, Well, this is your gal. 

Sarah: Right? 

Tracy: And the gal is, it’s a man. And you’re like, wait, hold on. 

Susan: Let’s more. They say, this is your guardian. And you’re like, No, no, no, no. I am not your guardian. Right? It’s a fancy … 

Tracy: Word for I’m your guardian angel, but you have to pay. 

Susan: My lawyer for kid’s best interest. 

Tracy: And I might have a letter that you don’t like. 

Sarah: Right. Normally you’re not going to like my letters, right? 

Tracy: Yeah. I’m sorry. So, yeah, the guardian ad litem writes a recommendation letter. 

Sarah: Right. And it’s normally not great for the parents. 

Tracy: We’ve done a whole episode about guardian ad litem work; I think we have at least had. 

Susan: If we didn’t, we will. 

Tracy: Yeah. Yeah. But guardian ad litem is also are pretty heavy in divorce work too. 

Sarah: They are. I’ve used them a lot and I’ve relied on them a lot. I show a different side. 

Tracy: I like to tell our clients that we can ask for guardian ad litem and their job is to basically do what a judge could do if the judge, like, wanted to go talk to your kids, talk to the therapist, see your house. But judges don’t want to do any of that, right? Nor can they. Right. They don’t have time. 

Susan: And so they’re not allowed to do their own investigation. Right. 

Tracy: My favorite is going to GALs do all of that for them. 

Susan: My favorite was going to the school because everyone worlds get really nervous when lawyers show up and they’re like, No, you’re not. I’m not here to, like, see what you’re doing wrong. I’m a guardian anyways. 

Tracy: I’m not the lawyer. I’m here to talk. And then you wear, like, wings and a halo over your head. Right? And then you have some music playing. Oh, wow. Did you do that when you went. 

Susan: To not ever do. 

Tracy: That? It might bring their anxiety down a little bit. 

Susan: They would call 911. There’s this chick dressed up in a costume. 

Sarah: She wants to talk to kids. Yeah, sure. 

Susan: She seems unstable. 

Tracy: I always like to know what was your first job? Ever? 

Sarah: Ever? 

Tracy: Yes. 

Sarah: I was a lifeguard. 

Susan: Me too. That wasn’t my first job, but it was one of my first. 

Sarah: That was my first. 

Tracy: We should be lifeguards this summer. 

Susan: I know we should. 

Tracy: Maybe we’ll take a weekend gig here. 

Susan: We show up at the pool. 

Sarah: Absolutely. I mean it’s, I thought it was a pretty easy job. 

Tracy: What time do the pools open? One. It was usually one or noon. 

Susan: What types did you work at? Public pools or private pools? 

Sarah: I worked at both. So I swam in high school, like on a team. So I had practice at 5 a.m. and then I taught swim lessons and then I worked at the public pool and we had. 

Tracy: Broony all the time. 

Sarah: Oh, yeah. 

Susan: Lifeguard, you live at the pool? 

Sarah: I smelled like chlorine. I guess I sweat chlorine. 

Tracy: But listen, that was not good. So that was never in the pool. 

Sarah: I just lived in the pool from May to August. Yes, because we did swim lessons. The pool was open and then we did swim lessons again. And then I had practice. So it was just a lot. And then I did coach at a country club pool and so I lifeguarded. I was a lifeguard there also, so I just did a lot. 

Tracy: Do you like to be in the pool now? 

Sarah: No. 

Tracy: Well, then you’re not going to lifeguard this summer. 

Sarah: No, I do. I like it. I’m just afraid to get sunburned. 

Tracy: Oh, yeah? Well, there’s fixes for that. 

Sarah: Yes, but I got so many sunburns, and it took me all summer to get, like. The smallest hand. Yeah. And then it went away in, like, a week, and I was like, well, my summer was wasted, clearly. 

Susan: Well, tan, being tan is really, in my opinion — public service announcement from Susan Reff. I think tan skin is really gross because it’s damaged skin. And this, our society has told people, you’re more beautiful with damaged skin that could kill you. I mean, skin cancer is deadly. And we tell people like that’s good looking and what message does that send? And like our generation, we didn’t wear sunscreen like right. Or you put it on one time. 

Tracy: Wait, our generation, there is no are. 

Susan: You. My generation’s a lot older. I know. 

Tracy: Whatever my generation for that PSA. Yeah, that’s very important. 

Susan: I lifeguarded with a gal who sunburned her eyeball. 

Tracy: Why’s she staring at the sun? 

Susan: The pool was reflecting so much, and she didn’t like to wear sunglasses. Sunglasses, because she couldn’t. She felt she couldn’t see as well out of them. And she, like, went to the dermatologist or the eye doctor or whatever. And they’re like, your eyeballs are sunburned. 

Tracy: And the doctor, the eye doctor said, put some fucking sunglasses on. 

Susan: Well, she had to have, like, special treatments and it was bad. 

Tracy: What’s she, what’s that woman doing now? 

Susan: She’s a stay-at-home mom. 

Tracy: Because she can’t see anymore. 

Susan: Hey, stay-at-home moms need to see, too. 

Tracy: Well, I don’t know. 

Sarah: Did you ever save anyone? 

Tracy: No. 

Susan: I did not. Not. Not really. I mean, there’s … 

Tracy: They all die there, right? Yes. 

Sarah: Did anyone ever drown while you were? 

Susan: There’s the kids that jump off the diving board that think they can get to the side and they really can’t. Like, that’s what you. I felt like that was the majority of what? 

Tracy: So you have to jump in and be like, or do you just yell from up top? “Keep kicking! Timmy, do you need me to save you?” 

Susan: No. You jump in because there … 

Sarah: Or you just throw your tube out, like grab on. It’s fine. 

Susan: Well, this one girl, she was in my swimming lessons and she had jumped off the board a gazillion times in swim lessons. And then her mom came and her mom was, like, wanting to see her jump off the board because her nanny brought her to swim lessons. 

Tracy: Is this the same mom that can’t see? 

Susan: No. The girl that couldn’t. Oh, well, the girl that got her eyeballs sunburned is the same age as me. We were like being together. 

Tracy: Woman I don’t know. 

Susan: Anyway, so this girl, and then she didn’t swim to the side; she freaked out. She was having, like, performance anxiety in front of her mom. Oh. 

Sarah: Did you throw any kids in for some lessons? 

Tracy: No. 

Sarah: A lot of parents wanted us to stand on the end of the diving board with their kids and, like, oh, throw them in. Yeah, I did that to someone else once. That’s systematic. 

Tracy: Did you ever have to save anyone, Sarah? 

Sarah: Well, I did, but I think it was partially my fault. Partially her fault. 

Tracy: Whoa. Blame the big dumb. 

Sarah: She had been fake drowning all day. Wow. And I was in. They do it all, that they think it’s funny. So we were, I was in the deep end with the diving board. 

Susan: They don’t think the lifeguards are going to react. They do it with their friends. Right. 

Sarah: So they think she was fake drowning all day. And I was annoyed. She jumped off the diving board, had an issue and I was like, she is fake drowning, whatever. Well, then she went underwater and did not come back up. So then I saved her. I was traumatized. I started crying. I ran away. 

Tracy: Oh, no. 

Sarah: Well, I just felt bad because I waited too long, but she was fine. Fake bitch. Yeah, exactly. 

Susan: We had a situation, so I lifeguarded at home, and then I lifeguarded here, and I lifeguarded at Papio Bay, which is a public pool with waterslides, and it attracts all sorts of people. And so we were jumping in a lot there because there would be kids who didn’t know how to swim and would get in areas of the pool they couldn’t swim in. But that was the pool that I worked at where like one of the lifeguards pulled somebody out of the pool who was like blue and limp and like, I’ll never forget, like, him pulling her out and her arms were, like, just completely limp and blue in her head. And so then if you’re a lifeguard, all the other lifeguards are supposed to do different things to, like, assist, like clear the pool, keep the kids back, one person calls 911, whatever. And so I was the person who was supposed to clear the pool. And I remember my voice was like totally shaking when I was on the mic. But everyone was like, “Oh, I completely forgot we were supposed to clear the pool, but you remembered.” And I was like, “OK, I did.” 

Tracy: Did the kid die? 

Susan: No, the kid did not die. 

Sarah: I think the most fun is like yelling at kids with my whistle babysitting. 

Susan: Oh yeah. Lifeguarding is babysitting. 

Sarah: It is. Yeah. 

Tracy: My parents were at a high school party or maybe it was college, I don’t know, like where young adults and people were jumping in when it was dark and they realized one of their friends was not out of the pool at one point, like hours later. And she had drowned at the bottom of the pool. Oh, my gosh. And they tell the story and I’m like … 

Susan: Are they adults at the time? 

Tracy: Yeah. You know, somewhere it’s either senior year of high school or like college age kids. And this woman didn’t know how to swim. 

Susan: She was scared to tell anybody she didn’t know. 

Tracy: Yeah. And they were probably all jumping in and drinking. And then it was dark in the pool, you know, because it was. And I’m like, Oh, my gosh, how traumatic. 

Sarah: That’s scary. 

Tracy: That is. Yeah. So I have a question. 

Susan: First job lifeguarding OC. 

Tracy: I have a question because I, we did swim lessons every summer. I loved it. And I think it’s so important that kids do swim lessons. But are they still doing the swim lessons where you jump in fully clothed with a button up shirt and then you have to take it off and fill it up with air and make a life raft with jeans, too? 

Sarah: No, not that I know about. And I never did that. 

Tracy: So prepared because of that training. Mostly if I’m wearing jeans and a button-up shirt and I get in the ocean somehow. 

Sarah: Right? 

Susan: I think there’s like a super advanced class that’s called like, water survival skills or something that that’s incorporated into. Yeah. And sometimes they bring like a canoe in the pool. 

Tracy: More likely I’m going to have a wetsuit on. But I think I could do the same thing with the wetsuit. 

Susan: But getting to. 

Sarah: Fill it with air. 

Susan: Isn’t it? Your wetsuit is supposed to help you float. 

Tracy: Yeah, it’s buoyant. 

Susan: But if it’s on you, doesn’t it help? 

Tracy: It helps keep you warm. Oh, yeah, and buoyant. But if you want it to, like, blow up and get like life raft. 

Susan: Yeah, like extra buoyancy. 

Sarah: Right? 

Tracy: Buoyant, buoyant, just buoyant. Just buoyant. So, lifeguard. 

Sarah: Yes. 

Tracy: International law seemed to be the next obvious step. 

Sarah: Right? 

Tracy: And then. 

Susan: Family law. 

Sarah: And then family law. 

Tracy: In the Outer Banks of Iowa. 

Sarah: Yes, that’s where we landed. 

Tracy: So how did you get here? Here today. Yeah. Did you today, what did you … 

Sarah: So juvenile law I saw a lot of. I was doing family law with juvenile law too. I mean, I feel like it’s just kind of all built in. But when I was doing all of these juvenile appointments, I saw a lot of domestic violence. Because I was getting a lot of the moms and even though they had other issues that were at the forefront of their case. A lot of it stemmed back to this relationship with their partner and the abuse that went on. So that kind of led me to working at the Women’s Center for Advancement. They had an opening and it was something that I had found a passion for of helping these women, because at the end of the day, if I see a parent who either gets sober, takes whatever necessary classes, gets their kids back, like that’s what I like to see. I like to see the growth of people. And so I really wanted to work for the WCA to see like, just put all my energy into those cases as opposed to everything else that I was doing. So that’s how I ended up there. And then I ended up here. 

Tracy: Because Susan said, “Hey, what do you think about maybe working with us?” And you said to her, “I thought you hated me.” That was the start of this relationship. 

Susan: I don’t think the first thing I said was, “You should go.” I was like. 

Tracy: Hey. 

Susan: Are you. I don’t know. What did I. 

Sarah: I think I was, I said, “Hey, Susan, are you hiring?” 

Tracy: I think you had had a couple of drinks, by the way. 

Sarah: Yes. And Susan said, yeah, always. We’re always interested to talk to people. And I said, Really? I thought you hated me. 

Tracy: No, I think. 

Susan: I said, I think I said, “Sarah, you’re on our list.” And you were like, What? Yeah. I was like, Yes. And so. 

Tracy: We have a couple of lists here. 

Susan: We have, in the times where we’ve really been like in a part where we’re like, okay, we’re making a conscious decision that we need to hire a new attorney. And so we like literally, like just put names on a piece of paper of people we know that work in this area or adjacent areas and people we think are pretty cool and people that have good reputations. 

Tracy: And that would fit in here. Yeah. Like I think our culture is unique in the sense that we overly work together, you know, like people can say like, “Oh, we’re a team,” you know, I think, I think there’s something more than just being a team. It’s like anyone can go talk to anyone. Yeah, the office. And no one’s like, listen, I don’t have time for you, right? Right. It’s like, yep. What do you got? Let’s talk about it. 

Susan: Well, and I think even one time when you were on the list. We were like, “Is she still doing family law stuff?” And like, we were trying to, I was trying to stalk you a little. 

Tracy: Well, you don’t have Facebook. So that’s the hard part. 

Susan: She does. 

Sarah: I do. I’m just, it’s very protected. 

Tracy: Yeah. I can’t even find it. 

Susan: But I was, I mean, I was a lot of times you can just kind of Google lawyers and stuff and nothing was really coming up and I was like, Oh, maybe she’s not doing it anymore. And then. 

Tracy: She blocked you from everything. 

Susan: And she took out a protection order. 

Sarah: I did. Because I wanted to stay. 

Susan: Well, and then I think so we hired I think maybe that was when we hired Joy. Or something. And then you’ve been on our list for at least two years, Sarah. 

Sarah: Wow. 

Tracy: Apparently. 

Susan: Wow. Yeah, well, we didn’t make a new list ever. 

Tracy: That’s right. 

Susan: So, yeah. And you were like, “Well, I thought you hated me.” And I was like, “Oh, why? Why do people think? And then I think, is it my face?” 

Tracy: No, it’s your. 

Susan: Yeah, I know. Or is it that sometimes, like, in my in my quest to be efficient, professional and nice, I come across bitchy. 

Sarah: No, no. I think we had a case together that I wasn’t originally on. And I probably can’t say much more about it. 

Susan: But you thought I didn’t like you after a case that makes me sad. Like I. 

Sarah: Only know. 

Tracy: The direction of your quest, Susan. 

Sarah: No, I think the case itself was just very messy, but very, very messy. 

Susan: I think we, like, had one interaction. 

Sarah: Yeah. So this is totally a mark on you. 

Susan: God damn. I need a lot of therapy. 

Sarah: No, no, it could be. It could be my own. My own self-projection. I was just like, I don’t know. 

Susan: And little did she know I was really stalking you behind the scenes. Who knew fanning you well? Fan, girly girl. What is it. 

Sarah: I wasn’t doing? There was a time at the WCA where I wasn’t, I think. 

Tracy: Fanning Girl. 

Sarah: Fan Girling. 

Tracy: Fan Girling. 

Sarah: Fan Girling. 

Tracy: Fanning Girling. 

Susan: Fanny packs. 

Tracy: Fanny packs are in. Oh, my gosh. I love them. Tracy loves them too. Imperative. 

Susan: Tracy, how many do you have? 

Tracy: I have three, four or five. Maybe more. But here’s the thing. When you travel, if you’ve got a backpack on and a fanny pack, you just sit down on the toilet, you’ve got to pull your. 

Susan: Toilet seat. 

Tracy: Down the toilet. You don’t got to take anything off. You don’t have to hang up anything in the bathroom at the airport. You know, you just you can just go pull your pants back up and you don’t got to … 

Susan: Do you wear your fanny pack in the front, the side or the back? 

Tracy: All of the above and sometimes across the body. I do like a cross-body. That’s called a bosom bag. 

Sarah: A bosom bag. 

Susan: Och do. 

Tracy: Me that up. 

Susan: The strap like the girls or over. 

Tracy: The girls. No the the bag part’s in the front. 

Susan: Well that’s a lot because it’s all affected behind you. 

Sarah: Well sometimes I put it behind me. 

Susan: Well, like one of those sling bags. 

Tracy: I have the fear that at all times anyone is behind me trying to get into my bag, that … 

Sarah: I have a similar fear. 

Tracy: Following me all the time. The opening zippers. 

Susan: Okay, so is the bag between the girls or on top of the girls? 

Tracy: My bags. My bags are big enough that it doesn’t go in between the girls. 

Susan: Where does it go? It just. 

Tracy: Sits here. 

Susan: So. Well, it’s like on it’s like it’s like. 

Sarah: It’s on top of them, like, sideways sometimes. Or sometimes it’s like underneath or behind. 

Tracy: If it is a true travel situation, it is around the waist in the front because you can’t sit down on the toilet if it’s off to the side. 

Susan: And then you can grab your stuff. 

Tracy: And if it’s in the back you’re getting toilet paper in it. 

Susan: It’s all about a toilet for Tracey. It is. 

Tracy: So efficient. You know how shitty that is. You got to hang up your purse, put a backpack on the ground. It’s amazing. 

Susan: I’m glad. So we all like fanny packs. 

Sarah: We do like fanny packs. 

Tracy: Yes. Okay, wait. But I really want to know about your dog, too. 

Sarah: My dog? 

Tracy: We need to talk about your dog. 

Sarah: We do? 

Tracy: What’s his name? 

Sarah: Winnie. 

Tracy: How did you come up with Winnie? 

Sarah: Oh, this is a weird story. 

Tracy: That’s a good one. It’s great. I don’t know it, but I assume it’s good. 

Sarah: It’s really not. Mine’s not great. So my aunt and uncle have corgis and they are named after Janis Joplin and Freddie Mercury. 

Tracy: So what are their names? 

Sarah: JJ and Mercury. 

Tracy: Oh, for real. Like, for real. Okay. 

Sarah: So they had this accidental litter of puppies, which is how me and all of my cousins. 

Tracy: Now accidentally come on. They were waiting to get their dogs fixed. 

Sarah: They were waiting for JJ to have her first heat, and then they were going to get them both fixed. And that happened. And she got pregnant. 

Tracy: Then they secretly had sex like teenagers do secretly. 

Sarah: She is a teen mom. She was less than a year old. 

Susan: Janis Joplin and Freddie Mercury never would have had sex. 

Sarah: Absolutely not. No. No. 

Tracy: So the course of history. 

Sarah: They had puppies. Me and all of my cousins have corgis. 

Susan: How many puppies were in the litter?  

Sarah: Eight. 

Susan: That’s a holy big litter. 

Sarah: Yeah, that’s a lot. 

Susan: Yeah, I’m going to say. Holy shit. 

Sarah: So most of them were named after musicians. 

Susan: Oh, you’re an uncle named well or. 

Sarah: No, all of the cousins. So, like, one is named Meatloaf. 

Susan: Oh, my gosh. 

Tracy: Yeah, that’s a dog name. 

Sarah: I liked Winnie, so I was like, I’m just going to say she’s named after Wynonna Judd and call her Winnie. Okay. 

Susan: Well, that’s a good. 

Sarah: In retrospect, I should have called her Dolly. 

Tracy: Dolly is like big now. 

Sarah: Yeah. So my next corgi will be Dolly Parton. 

Tracy: No, not boobs, but like as her character. Like how. 

Susan: Her social justice stuff I think. 

Sarah: I think so too. Yeah. And she just will spend money on things she cares about. She’s awesome with like. No, yeah. Nothing else. Just I’m going to put a bunch of money towards that and make it happen. 

Susan: Is are any of them named like Prince? 

Sarah: Or no. I do think one is named after Princess Leia, not musician wise, but her other dog was like Lupe or something. 

Tracy: But your dog recently was in a competition. 

Sarah: In a race. 

Tracy: As a corgi. 

Sarah: As a corgi. 

Tracy: To be clear, your dog is a corgi. Corgi races is a thing. 

Sarah: It’s a thing. 

Tracy: Is there a race for all types of dogs, do you think? Because like I had a Great Dane, and I would have loved to have her in a race. 

Sarah: I think there are. 

Susan: Greyhound racing. 

Tracy: Words like people are betting. We thought our dog was a greyhound, too. And I was like, listen. 

Susan: Greyhounds don’t look like. 

Tracy: No, I know. 

Susan: They’re long haul. 

Sarah: Well, there’s a very interesting group in Omaha of corgis, the Omaha Corgi crew. Oh, and when he’s in a calendar for them, they had a corgi and drag queen calendar for this year. 

Tracy: My dog was in a Great Dane calendar. 

Susan: Yeah. People and their dogs. It’s like gangs. Whoa. Like what’s the, Frenchie is a big one. 

Sarah: Yes. 

Susan: Diana and her dachshund was like, that’s a thing. She has a bunch of dachshund mom friends and yes. 

Sarah: We have meetups. 

Susan: Now, what if you don’t have a corgi? Can you still come? 

Sarah: You can come to the races. 

Tracy: What if you have a corgi and a Great Dane? Do you bring your Great Dane to the corgi meet up? 

Sarah: You’re not. Oh, to meet up. 

Tracy: Yeah. 

Sarah: Yeah, but. 

Tracy: The Great Dane can’t race with the corgis. No, they’ll fuck you up. Yes. 

Susan: Your dog would have just laid on the ground. Don’t know. Like, this is so fun. 

Tracy: They’re so, 10 years old. She would have ran. 

Sarah: Yeah. 

Tracy: Galloped. Yeah. 

Sarah: Just over the corgis. I mean, the. The race length is very short, so. 

Tracy: Well, because so are their legs. 

Susan: It was long for her. 

Tracy: It was. Did she win? 

Sarah: No. Oh, no. 

Tracy: Are you going to do any more? 

Sarah: I think I’ll do it next year. But people traveled like over an hour to this race. 

Tracy: From the Outer Banks of Iowa. 

Sarah: Yeah. And I didn’t know that they that it was that big of a deal. I was like, this is just fun for me. Like. 

Susan: It was a fundraiser, right? 

Tracy: It was a fundraiser. So I could support the corgi crew. 

Sarah: Yes, absolutely. 

Susan: You get T-shirts? 

Sarah: Yes. 

Tracy: Oh, my gosh. 

Susan: Well, corgis are kind of like a trendy look, is the thing. 

Tracy: Isn’t that what the queen has? 

Sarah: The queen has corgis. 

Susan: And they’re so freaking cute. 

Sarah: They are. They have really big personalities, too. 

Tracy: Do they shed? 

Sarah: Yeah. 

Tracy: And do you have to groom, get them groomed professionally? 

Sarah: Not really. Their coats are pretty good on their own. You don’t have to get them trimmed or anything. But the brushing, the shedding treatment, all of that. They shed as much as a husky. So. 

Susan: Is your dog a lap dog? Yes, because I think when I look at a corgi, it’s like I see a teddy bear. 

Sarah: Well, they’re either super independent and don’t like you or they’re super cuddly. So sometimes when she will, like go to the other side of the room and just, like, do her own thing, that’s like. 

Susan: What? Like the queen. Yeah, like I’m over here. 

Tracy: So tell us, as we wrap up, tell us why you were excited to work at Hightower Reff Law and like, what makes you excited to be here? 

Susan: Especially when you thought Susan hated you. 

Tracy: Yeah. 

Susan: You’re like, “Whoa, I can overcome.” 

Sarah: I love that. It’s women. It’s all women. Except for some additions. 

Tracy: Except for those two men that we brought in right before you and I. 

Sarah: I’m so used to being able to talk about cases and work together, and I don’t see that at a lot of other firms. Like you mentioned, I could just go into anyone’s office and be like, “I have this case. I don’t really know if I’m doing this right” or I have questions, I just want to talk it through someone or talk it through with someone. And it’s just a really nice culture to work in. It makes it easy to do my job because our jobs are not always easy. 

Tracy: So you even thought that before you came here and then it like matched your expectation coming here? 

Sarah: Yes, exceeded my expectation. 

Tracy: That’s awesome. 

Sarah: Yeah. 

Tracy: Well, that’s good to hear. 

Sarah: Yay, yay. 

Tracy: Because I love when everyone just is chatting about cases. Yes, because I like to do that, too, even though I think like, I kind of probably know what to do. It’s nice to just say, like, oh, what would you do? And then I often get other ideas that I hadn’t thought of. 

Susan: Like the other day, I have a really tough case with kind of a weird fact pattern, and it kind of came about when Tara was on maternity leave and I’m at a stuck point. I was like, “Well, I’m going to go talk to Tara because I haven’t talked to her ever about it.” So she’s not like she doesn’t have any preconceived notions. I don’t think about this case, so I just like ran through the whole thing with her and I said, “This is what I’m thinking, you know?” And she helped me kind of solidify my next steps and stuff like that. So that was really great to be able to do that when you’re a solo, too. I was a solo for a while. You don’t get to do that. It’s hard. And then some firms, I just don’t think that like they would be like, “Oh, Sarah doesn’t know what she’s doing because she’s asking people for their advice like that.” 

Sarah: Yeah, they just leave you on your own. Like, why don’t you just figure it out? Look at the statute. Go ahead. 

Susan: Figure it out on cases. 

Sarah: Figure them out. Yeah. And I’m like, “Oh, okay.” 

Susan: Yeah. 

Tracy: Well, we’re excited to have you here. I’m really excited to think about season 3. We have a lot of shit going on in the world, right? I mean, these hearings, it just came out from the January. Yeah. What are we calling it? The imposition. 

Susan: Insurrection. 

Sarah: Insurrection. 

Tracy: Oh, yeah. It was something. 

Susan: They did impose, though, on Congress. Yeah. 

Tracy: Yes, that’s happening. 

Sarah: They did. 

Tracy: Roe versus Wade is happening. All of these things are happening that we’re so glad to be back. 

Susan: Maybe some new corgi race updates. 

Sarah: Yeah. Yeah. 

Susan: I mean, on a lighter note. 

Tracy: Yeah, yeah. But there’s a lot of shit to talk about and we’ll be back. And Sarah, thank you for coming today. 

Sarah: Thank you so much. 

Tracy: All right. Check y’all later. See you in the fall. 

Outro: Thank you for listening to the Lady Lawyer League. Be sure to like and subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts. If you would like to learn more about our firm, visit us at We’ll see you next week.

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