Alimony

Susan Reff: On today’s podcast, we will be discussing alimony in a divorce case

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Also known as spousal support. So the topic of alimony was that that honk in there. Why did it long? Why did she honk?

Susan Reff: Oh, hey, hey, it’s like it’s like GMA.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I think she got in and honked her horn when, like with her elbow was not for us. Yeah. So alimony is a very interesting topic, sometimes dry, but we are going to make it very exciting. We promise. So what’s new with you?

Susan Reff: I just feel like the summer is flying by my my son is in all sorts of camps and it’s it’s like each week is different. Like, Where is he going to be? When where do I have to be to pick him up? Are we carpooling this week with people who am I picking up? It’s insane. So I have this, this calendar and it is, you know, all these colors where he’s going to be, what lessons he has, what’s going on. And I I need a vacation from it.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: You’re good at color coding things, though.

Susan Reff: Well, thank you.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: And you’re really good at different colored pens. I always appreciate that.

Susan Reff: I like to trick myself into having fun doing adulting. So with different colored pens, does that for me?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Awesome. Well, Amazon Prime Day was a recent and I bought some colored pens. What colors? All colors? You know the the bullet journaling? Yes, I had this grand idea to do bullet journaling about two years ago, and so I bought all these really cool pens that don’t bleed and they write really well. I never did the bullet journaling, but I got the pens and I like the pens.

Susan Reff: Any journal that requires you to like, take a class to learn how to do it. I’m not into that or calligraphy.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, there’s a lot on Pinterest about bullet journaling. If anyone’s interested, don’t talk to us about it because we clearly didn’t get into it.

Susan Reff: Do you keep a journal?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Sometimes, yeah. And and actually, I was going to talk about a lot of semi journaling I’ve had to do recently

Susan Reff: To my journals.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: So my journaling?

Susan Reff: Yeah, well, like writing only on half the page.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, or like very short hand. I, you know, I have a recent recent diagnosis of a autoimmune disorder called scleroderma. And in the next couple of weeks, I’ll be going to Denver for some week long testing. And so I’ve just been really writing down all of the things that I want to talk to the medical professionals about. And I have been using my bullet journaling pens and some color coding. So there’s a lot, a lot of information. And yes, I am using journaling skills, but no pictures, no cutesy pictures.

Susan Reff: Oh, and then are you going to take your journal to the appointment so that, yes, you know what? To remind yourself what you need to tell them. Ok, yes.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: You know, bullet journaling had a lot to do with rulers using a ruler so that you could, like, put a grid in.

Susan Reff: I went to a continuing legal ED. Class with a bunch of lawyers and one of the lawyers took her notes using a ruler and I was I just I I’m not that neat or organized.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: What was it? Not lined paper?

Susan Reff: She was not using lined paper to

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Take her creating her own lines with her ruler, a pencil or a pen.

Susan Reff: I think she had a she didn’t draw a line. She used the ruler. It was clear. Wow. You could. Clearly she had a system that she used where she would move the ruler down the paper as she went.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: So she didn’t like lines, but she wanted it straight. Yeah, this is fascinating. Yeah.

Susan Reff: Hmm. You know her? I’ll tell you her name.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Ok, but not the listeners.

Susan Reff: No, I think this might be something that is private or I shouldn’t share until I’ve got got permission from this lawyer.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I’m impressed by this person system. Yeah. Very neat.

Susan Reff: So talking about alimony, which is not so clear and neat and lined no

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Straight lines and alimony? No, there’s a lot of, you know, those memes that are like how women and men make decisions. And the men’s decision is like a straight line and the women is like.

Susan Reff: Doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo doo. And then that’s actually how I describe you.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Oh, perfect.

Susan Reff: I said, this is how Tracy talks about an idea, and it’s like a swirly line all over the place and then an ending spot. You always get to an ending spot, but you’re more swirly.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Do you think that you are more of the straight line?

Susan Reff: I’m probably not exactly a perfectly straight line, but I am nowhere near a swirly as you are.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: But often the end decision that we have to make together sometimes is the same.

Susan Reff: So we just get there different ways. Yes. Yeah, that’s the exact example I use when when I’m talking about it is when you and I have to make a decision. So.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: So alimony is the swirly line when the decision is made in a case that alimony is getting granted, whether it’s by the judge or by the spouses, it is often not a straight line. Sometimes it can be

Susan Reff: So alimony you know is used. The word is used interchangeably with spousal support or spousal maintenance or a maintenance payment. I think in Nebraska it started out as alimony, and now the trend is more towards the term spousal support, but they mean the exact same thing.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I actually think it’s more alimony now, really. Yeah. I don’t know, who knows, but it’s interchangeable. They mean the same thing.

Susan Reff: Well, and then there’s the term palimony

Tracy Hightower-Henne: That I haven’t heard of.

Susan Reff: You’ve never heard of palimony. We’ll look at I’m going to look it up right now.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Susan has her twenty five year old Black’s law dictionary she’s looking at right now. Twenty five years old. Well, you are having your 20 year anniversary this year.

Susan Reff: I am.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: So then it’s twenty three years old. It takes three years to get through law school

Susan Reff: From a palimony. A court ordered allowance paid by one member. To the other of a couple that though unmarried, formerly cohabitating and. So there’s a it’s like a cohabitation payment for unmarried people

Tracy Hightower-Henne: That doesn’t exist today or at least doesn’t exist in our very red state of Nebraska because, you know, you have to be married to have those things

Susan Reff: In Nebraska, maybe in other states.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: What about Pet Simoni pet pet

Susan Reff: Alimony for the maintenance of a pet?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Or is that a thing that should be a thing? And sometimes that does get worked in how people are going to continue the maintenance of a pet? I don’t really like that. The phrase alimony and spousal support is also interchangeable with maintenance because I think of maintenance like on my HVAC system. Or my dishwasher?

Susan Reff: Well, maybe as we talk through what alimony actually is for, it might make more sense why they call it maintenance. I mean,

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Maybe I’ll understand it.

Susan Reff: I think you do understand it, but understand why it’s called maintenance.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: So, you know, we printed out the statute for today. We’re not going to read this word for word, but the phrases of what goes into an alimony consideration. Just listen to these. These are very circular and not granular and very subjecting subject to interpretation. So to consider alimony, you look at a history of the contributions to the marriage by each party, including contributions to the care and education of the children. Interruption of personal careers or educational opportunities. And here’s the big one and the ability of the supported party to engage in gainful employment without interfering with the interests of any minor children in the custody of such party. What? Look that up in the Black’s law dictionary. What does that mean?

Susan Reff: Yeah. So what we as lawyers have to do is figure out if our client is asking for alimony, how we can make their situation fit. All of these, this this legal statute so that the judge will say, Oh, clearly, this person is entitled to and deserves alimony.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Right? And so I like to think about when our clients come to us. You know, we typically before the consultation, have them fill out some homework paperwork. And in that we specifically ask if they’re going to be the filing party. Are they likely to request alimony? And sometimes when they’re filling out that paperwork, they have no idea whether they might be entitled to it or not. So it’s always really interesting when a potential client before their consulate says, Yeah, I would like alimony. And then when we have the consultation with them, we ask all these questions of, you know, tell us about your marriage, tell us about who took care of the kids. Did anyone put their career on hold to be a stay at home parent? And then we get into I just had a consultation, and this potential client really thought that they were entitled to alimony. And so we went through the questions and I said, Well, how much does your spouse make and how much do you make? And she answered that her spouse made about one hundred and twenty five thousand dollars per year and that she made about seventy five thousand. And I wanted to sort of laugh at this person, but I ended up telling this potential client, you’re not getting alimony. And it’s it’s not only just because there was not a huge disparity of income, but also because she has income.

Susan Reff: So it’s not the lesson here, right? Alimony is not just because someone earns more money than another person.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Absolutely. It is not just an income equalizer, and I think that’s the huge misnomer that a lot of people think as well. My spouse makes more money than I do, and so we need to equalize our incomes and we should, at the end of the day, make the same amount of money.

Susan Reff: The big, but here the big. But there’s always a but

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Big butts, and I cannot lie.

Susan Reff: The big butt is. But if someone makes less money and they put their career on hold to stay at home with kids or they with, maybe they didn’t accept advancements in their jobs because it was going to change their schedule and they wouldn’t be able to take care of kids. Then maybe that person is entitled to alimony, because the partially because the incomes are different, but then because they have forgone career advancements.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Correct. Yeah, we have to look at the entire picture of what the income looks like and then what the other circumstances are during the duration of the marriage. So when we talk about alimony in the sense of how are we going to present this to the judge if there are children involved? We usually look at a child’s calculator first and we’ll say, how much is child support going to be paid from one spouse to the other? And is the receiving party of that child support then in need of other income? So to determine that will have both parties fill out their monthly expense worksheet? So we know is there a deficit in their monthly expenses?

Susan Reff: Do you think alimony would be awarded if all the other factors were met? Let’s say, you know, one party earns less. It’s a longer term marriage. They’ve stayed at home with kids, so they’re kind of newer in their in their career. But they don’t they don’t have a monthly deficit like. It, you know, if if they’re able to meet their own budget every month with, you know, the child support their income, you know, they’re living a reasonable lifestyle. You know, I have not had that come up in a case. I mean, I feel like a lot of people live beyond their means, no matter what their incomes are. So I wonder in that case if a judge would order alimony?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Well, Susan, it depends.

Susan Reff: That’s the other big thing the big, but the big. But but it depends.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Well, and it it really depends, unfortunately, on other moving factors that are outside of the statutory language, like who is our judge and every judge while they have to stay within the bounds of what the statute says and they have to follow the law because the statute is so. Discretionary, it gives the judge so much leeway to make a decision based on all those facts and circumstances, and some judges may say, Yeah, I don’t really care what, whether there’s discretionary income at the end of the day, that maybe this person also helped support the other spouse get to such a higher income. And so there’s kind of like a payback then.

Susan Reff: Right? I I often have people come in who’ve been married, you know, a really short amount of time, and maybe they do fit a couple of the pieces of the criteria of alimony. But you know, they’ve put their career on hold for a year and then they’re asking for alimony. And in those circumstances or those situations, I definitely I say, you know, maybe a short term temporary couple. Yeah, maybe not type of a thing with them. Yeah. Like we can. I don’t feel as silly asking for it on a temporary basis as I would. If you know, this was the final decree, but you’re not going to get it long term.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: You’re not getting alimony for 60 months. No, maybe for six months. So that’s the other point of alimony is there’s two pieces to alimony, and that is how much per month you’re going to receive your pay and for how many months. And then there are triggering events for it to end. So you may get alimony, let’s say, at a thousand dollars a month, then it’s either up to a settlement discussion or a judge to decide for how many months. Sometimes alimony can be staggered downwards to. So you may get a thousand dollars a month for 12 months and then five hundred dollars a month for 12 months after that. Or you may get alimony for a thousand dollars a month for seventy two months. You know, there’s a lot of different things that a judge can decide. So sometimes a judge may say, All right, spouse a I will give you alimony at the amount you want, but not the number of months you want. So they are feeling like they’re giving maybe both spouses a win.

Susan Reff: Another thing that I think comes up when we talk about alimony in settlement a lot is the total amount. You know, someone might be willing to pay more alimony in a shorter time frame or less alimony and a longer time frame, and the total ends up being the same in those situations. So oftentimes I say to someone, when we’re talking about settlement, I calculate the whole amount of alimony. Like, if you got it at one time, what would it be? And then are they comfortable with that number? And then how many? How do we spread that out? So it makes sense to them?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, that’s a good way to look at it. So the other thing to know to because some states have used to have and may still have alimony as a tax, a taxable event. So starting in 2019, Nebraska no longer allows alimony to be a taxable event, which took away a lot of different positioning we could have for our clients, both whether you’re paying or receiving so alimony used to be a tax deductible event for the person paying and then a taxable income event for the person receiving. But now it’s not. It’s just a money transfer pursuant to a divorce. So we used to have are paying alimony. Clients say, Oh, OK, I need some more deductions. Sure, I’ll pay more in alimony or maybe more up front if they needed some tax planning advantages and we don’t have that anymore, right?

Susan Reff: The most clear cut case for alimony is a longer term marriage, like I’d say, 10 plus years. Yeah, with children where one one parent stayed home or worked part time, even though they were fully capable of working full time and earning, you know, a good salary at that job. But they chose to stay home or work part time to meet the needs of the children. And then they were potentially saving money on daycare. You know, there’s that that idea that, you know, for some families, they don’t want their kids in daycare. So there’s the idea of keeping your kids out of daycare and at home is a better environment for them. So there’s some cost benefit analysis there. And then this person at the time of divorce really has been out of the workforce for a significant period of time. Can’t jump in where they would have been able to jump in when the marriage started. So that case and oh, and the other person has the ability to pay them,

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Right, all of those things. It’s like a stars have to align scenario, you know? But when we talk about alimony, when we were really thinking about this topic, it really falls into two different scenarios the sort of younger people and then the older people. So the younger people is that scenario. You just described a stay at home parent who put their career on hold. We may be looking at a scenario in the divorce where the kids are four and five and they’re just about to go to kindergarten. And so maybe alimony is just a period of time. For that parent to get the kids in school full time, start a career. Also, again, depending on the length of the marriage, so that alimony duration may be thirty six months because that’s about the time right for them to maybe go to law school. But no, not everyone’s going to law school after a divorce.

Susan Reff: But then you have probably people are like, Oh man, I don’t ever want to have anything to do with lawyers again.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yes. On the flip side, you know, you have that other scenario very opposite of what you just described is a very, very long term marriage. And this is maybe what we get into when we talk about the gray divorce. And you may have a 30 plus year marriage. The kids are all grown. They’re older, they’re out of the house. They probably also already completely finished college, but you have different implications, like when is Social Security going to start paying? What about Medicare? What about health insurance? And you may just have a couple where one spouse either retired early because the other spouse made so much money. And so they’re we’re looking at truly monthly expenses and then also supporting a lifestyle that they’ve been enjoying.

Susan Reff: And I just finished a case with that exact scenario. My client was had been a stay at home mom until the kids were like high school. Then she did go back into the workforce, but she was earning quite a bit less than her husband, who’d been in the workforce the entire marriage, and the judge ordered alimony until she reached sixty five. And it wasn’t a huge amount because she did have some earning, you know, she was earning a a good salary, nowhere near what he was earning. But so the judge said, OK, I’m going to take your age to sixty five and you’re going to get a monthly payment until sixty five. And then I’m going to assume you can draw on Social Security at that time. And that would take the place of it. And actually when when she hits sixty five, she’s going to earn more than that alimony payment, right? So whether she keeps whether she chooses Social Security at that time or not.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: And as a disclaimer, because we are not financial planners and professionals, some people are entitled to receive a portion of their ex-spouses Social Security. And that is something that you know are we send our clients to financial planners to talk about how that scenario looks when they when their spouse is going to receive Social Security, when they are going to receive Social Security. So that is part of a an argument that we can make to the judge like you just described. Yeah, but you know, in that scenario, and I’m not familiar with that client that you’re talking about, but you know, let’s say that she was on her spouse’s health insurance through her spouse’s employer.

Susan Reff: Yep, that’s exactly the exact situation.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: And so then the same thing, you know, maybe she’s entitled to Medicare at the age of sixty five. And if she were to have to go on a private health insurance plan right now, that could be a thousand dollars a month. And so we’ll go into court and make the argument that judge at minimum, our client should receive enough to cover that health insurance premium until sixty five Medicare kicks in or some other expenses that maybe she had been counting on her spouse to pay, right?

Susan Reff: Something I get asked a lot in consultations or, you know, just being a divorce lawyers, people say, Well, is a person entitled to alimony because someone had an affair?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yes, or on me, or

Susan Reff: They ran out on me and abandoned me, you know, like for for bad acts, is it a punishment? And the technical answer is no, no, because the statute doesn’t allow for that.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: A non-technical answer is it depends.

Susan Reff: Right, right.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Because while we can’t go into court and say, Judge, they cheated on our client, pay alimony, but we can break it down into, you know, some information that maybe we can a little bit pull at the heartstrings too of the judge.

Susan Reff: Yeah, I think you still need to show the things that we’ve already talked about by someone, you know, forgoing career opportunities and things like that. Another question I get asked is, can I get alimony even though I don’t have kids?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yes. And I think there’s the answer. It depends.

Susan Reff: It depends. I don’t think, you know, I don’t think it’s a hard and fast. No, just because you don’t have kids that you can’t get alimony. But then we would have to really get into the, you know, what were you doing? Why, why you weren’t working? Maybe the other person, the other spouse, has such a demanding job that this person has to support them and they’re almost like an assistant to their spouse with their work, things depending on what they do.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yes, if my spouse divorced me, we don’t have children, I would get alimony. Well, you would,

Susan Reff: Because you’re a divorce lawyer.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah. And also, well, we’ve talked about my Starbucks habit, right? How does this play in? I need to continue to be able to enjoy my Starbucks. No. In all seriousness, though, you know, alimony is is a pretty serious topic, and we take it really seriously when our clients. You know, I told this one client that I described where she’s making a pretty good income as well. I said, my job is to be very clear with you. I don’t think you’re getting alimony. And I don’t think that it’s fair for you to leave this consultation with any hopes that you might be getting alimony. And I told her that if she decides to file for divorce, that we would plead alimony, meaning we would request it. But at the end of the day, she has to be prepared that she may not get it.

Susan Reff: Yeah, and that’s the advice we have to give a lot of clients like we can ask for it, but we don’t know if you’re going to get it.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I use the line that I learned from you is, you know, in the complaint, it’s like your Christmas list. You have to put everything on the list, but you know, you’re not going to get everything you ask for. But unless you put it on the list, Santa is not going to just know what you want.

Susan Reff: Well, here’s here’s the very specific way I say it to clients. I say it’s like your Christmas list to Santa. You ask for the Barbie dream house knowing that you would probably be happy if you got the Barbie Corvette or the Barbie. What was that mobile home thing?

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I had the mobile home. Yeah, I think I still have it. My mom kept it.

Susan Reff: Can you bring that to the office? I’ll bring it to the office with that. That’d be fun.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Did you have the Barbie Dream house?

Susan Reff: No, I did not.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I had the Barbie things. Did you have?

Susan Reff: I had the Barbie hot tub. Oh, and the Barbie Corvette, which was yellow.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Oh, I had a red one yellow. I still have. That should bring that to.

Susan Reff: I can’t believe you have. I have no idea what I have. I actually have a ton of boxes that I have not opened.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I have a pink Porsche, too. This is really nostalgic.

Susan Reff: I had a moped. The pink Barbie moped.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: My mom kept all of my Barbie things, and at one point, weirdly, she says, Tracy, you need to dress all the dolls before they go into the box so that whoever opens them, they’re just ready to play with. And at some point we did, and then at some point some other kid played with them and, you know, got all messed up. So. But I will bring the mobile home in. I never had the dream home. I never wanted the dream dream house, dream house, dream house. I never wanted it because my dad had built these shelves in our basement that were way bigger. Like Barbie dream house, her head hit the ceiling in all the floors. It just wasn’t big enough for her. Hmm.

Susan Reff: So. So ask for alimony to take takeaway, right? Ask for alimony, but be prepared not to receive it.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yes. Somehow, that plays into the Barbie dream house. I’m trying to connect it, you know? Oh, it’s the Christmas list. Yes, the Kris. Want the Barbie dream house? You have to ask for it.

Susan Reff: So to to kind of finish at when there are things that can cause alimony to stop, you know, like let’s say we do get alimony ordered for our client for twenty five years. But generally, there’s a there’s a provision that says that if our client were to remarry someone else or even cohabitate with someone that that would put a stop to the alimony, even if the time frame had not stopped.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I recently had a case where my client was the alimony payer and he came in and wanted to modify alimony because his ex-wife got remarried. And I think the alimony was going to go for a long period of time, and they had just recently gotten divorced. And so I said, OK, well, that’s that’s a clear cut. We modify it. Alimony should end. We did that within like a month after the alimony ending, she divorced the second husband. And I thought, Wow, you know, she really, really lost out on that one. But we modified our client didn’t have to pay any more.

Susan Reff: I wonder if she could come back in and re modify it again.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: No, once it goes to zero, you can never modify again. Ok, so modification of alimony, you know, is it’s also very difficult, so let’s say. We get divorced. I’m paying spousal support, you know, $2000 a month for 60 months and in month 10, you win the lottery and you win $10 million. I actually can come in and ask for modification that you no longer need my two thousand dollars a month.

Susan Reff: I just settled a case of modification of alimony.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: I thought you were going to say you just won the lottery.

Susan Reff: I wish I’ve won. I’ve broke even on scratch offs. That’s the best I’ve ever done on the

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Lottery like net in life. Like you’ve kept a track.

Susan Reff: No, when I when I do so, if I win, I always just, you know, if I win like 10, 15 bucks, I always just buy more scratch

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Offs until you come

Susan Reff: Until I get to zero. That’s the way I do it. But I just finished a case that was a modification of alimony. We had done the original divorce. Our client was receiving alimony. It was exactly that situation we talked about before with the stay at home parent. She was just getting back into the working field, so she was getting alimony. And her ex-husband had a good career, a good job. Well, his the business he worked for restructured and they laid off a ton of people. So he came in and asked for a modification of alimony based on his income was no longer what it was. And also a modification of child support because his income was different. So we were able to settle that and work it out. That good.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, yeah. Who knows what a judge would have done? And I think that’s the biggest takeaway for today is the answer about alimony if you ask us a question. The answer is going to be it depends.

Susan Reff: It depends,

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Right? And it really, truly takes into consideration all of the facts and circumstances of what happened during the marriage. What are what have your career plans been or should have been or will be? So it’s case specific. And I think the other thing too, that we talk about a lot on our podcast is don’t compare your situation with anyone else, right? Plumber Joe,

Susan Reff: There’s so many things that go into into each case that no, I mean, literally no two cases are ever the same. Yes.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: So talk with a lawyer about your situation if you are contemplating divorce, and if you are curious whether you may receive or have to pay alimony, that is the only way you’re going to get an answer. Google will not tell you, well, they’ll tell you some things, but they’ll probably tell you you’re dying at the same time. So you’re looking for alimony.

Susan Reff: You’re going to get an answer that you’re dying.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, you know, like,

Susan Reff: Oh, like WebMD.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, somehow you’re going to end up on WebMD if you’re looking at alimony.

Susan Reff: Well, WebMD. Ultimately, I think the lawyers have told them that they have to say, You will die, you could die. There’s a risk of death from your finger that you cut.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, so.

Susan Reff: So alimony. Yeah, it’s not. It’s not guaranteed in any situation. Talk to an attorney. Make sure you get good advice. And I always say to talk about it early in the case, too. That’s why we ask about it. But if you think that it might come up in your case, make sure you’re talking about it early on.

Tracy Hightower-Henne: Yeah, so you can get it on your Christmas list along with your Barbie dream house.

Susan Reff: Thanks for listening to our podcast this week about alimony. It’s been really fun talking about it. Yeah, see, we had fun with it. I know I thought it was going to be boring,

Tracy Hightower-Henne: But I don’t think it was my. It was awesome.

Announcer: Thank you for listening to the Lady Lawyer League Podcast. Be sure to like and subscribe anywhere you get your podcasts, if you would like to learn more about our firm, Hightower-Reff Law, visit us at HR law Omaha.com. We’ll see you next week.